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Re: About the egyptains
In Response To: Re: About the egyptains ()

''You are quite correct to point out that the Egyptians regularly portrayed themselves as "other than black", unless they were portraying Nubian archers. These people operate on several false assumptions''

This is a non-sequenter. Nubians and Upper Egyptians who are phenotypically the same have been intermixing for time immortal. The A-group Nubian culture,Badarian,and cattle culture at Nabta Playa all share a close connection to each other. Egyptians in Waset[Thebes] are potrayed in the same hue as the Nubians. We should not forget that Egyptians also painted themselves lighter than Libyans,Syrians,Phonecians,and other types of people. Please don;t forget that Ta-Seti,southernmost nome of Upper Egypt,was culturally the same as Egypt.

''that white archaeologists are racists advocating a "White Egypt" hypothesis; and that the "Browness" of the Egyptian population refers to fairly recent immigrations''

Upper Egyptians have always been,and still are dark brown with thick wavy hair to tightly curled hair. Go to Luxor,Aswan,Quena,and Edufu and you will see that these people could clearly be seen as black in America.

''The facts are these: Egypt has been a racial/cultural melting pot from at least 5000BC as the variety of skull types shows''

Most Egyptian skulls in Upper Egypt since pre-dyanstic times show affinities with tropical Africans,and are Dolicephallic[long headed]. The Upper Egyptians were fairly homgenous than Lower Egyptians,who probally had interaction with the Syro-Palestineans,Costal type Northern Africans,and Near easterners. The culture of Ancient Egypt grew out of the Sahara,A-group Nubia,Badarian,NaqudaI,II,II,and Nabta Playa in Southern Egypt. The only mixing started when Narmer unified both Upper and Lower Egypt,which was probally only the lines of the royalthy.

'' that Semitic language elements''

Ancient Egyptian language does not have any affinities with the Semetic language. The only affinities are through no use of vowels,which is a common trait amung all Afro-Asiatic languages. The Afro-Asiatic languages all have a common source between Sudan,Ethiopia,and the Red Sea they developed and branched off at different time periods. The English,Arabic,and Hebrew language all have Ancient Egyptian loan words,but I cannot say that they are the same.


Your views need some emending: First, the ancient Egyptians were not a Semitic people. Their language, Egypto-Coptic is part of the North African branch of the Afro-Asiatic language family. Semitic languages belong to the eastern, western Asian branch of this language family. Thus Egypt is African in culture, not Semitic

SincerelFrank J. Yurcoy,

University of Chicago

Frank Joseph Yurco


''along with Mesopotamian-style architecture and other artes minores are present in Egypt from at least proto-dynastic times''

Influences from other people does not imply intermixture. The old Mesopotamian hypothesis for the foundation has been long abandoned. Egyptologist generally accept that the cultural influences were little between Mesopotamia,and was confined to trade. Evidence also sugest that the inscription at Abydos is much older than Sumerian writting,and possibly could have influced the Sumerians. Egyptian customs,culture,architecture,and various relgious sources came from Upper Egypt. We must also observe that the mummy found in Libya is dated to around 5,400 B.C.,which is older than the oldest Egyptian mummifcation. We also see other cultural traits from the Sahara,such as: cattle rituals,pharoahs wearing a cow tail,and various other traidtions that were present around the Old Kingdom.
The Complete Temples of Ancient Egypt
by Richard H. Wilkinson
Wilkinson indicates that Egyptian temples have an early origin within the Nabta Playa culture. Mabta Playa is a series of Megaltihs in Southern Egypt that are dated to 10,000 years.

mumification pre-dates that in Egypt by nearly 2,000 years. Even hard nosed Egyptologist like Joann Fletcher admits that the early Saharan culture taught the Egyptians mumifcation. We also know that a early Saharan population who were mostly negriod merged with the Upper Egyptians.

The Discovery channel has this show playing this month... It's about
mummy of a Black child found 1500 miles west of Egypt in southern
It dates back 1000 years before the mummies of Egypt..... nearly 5700
yrs. ago!!!

In the region of Fezzan there was found the body of a negriod child
mummified by Italian archeologist F.Mori

page 44
African begginings

By Olivia Vlahos

***Please note that is not a artifical mummy that has been aged and dried out by sand. The mummy was embalmed,rituals were praticed,and had an elaborate burial****


references for Upper Egyptians founding Egyptian civlization

From Petrie onwards,it was rewguarly suggested,despite the evidence
of Pre dyanstic cultures,Egyptian civlization of the 1st dyansty
appeared suddently and must therfore have been instroduced by an
invading foreign ''race''. Since the 1970's however excavations at
bautu and nekhen have clearly ,demonstrated the indigenous Upper
Egyptian roots of early civlization in egypt. While there is
certainly evidence of foreign contact in the fourth millennium
B.C.,this was not in the form of millitary invasion

page 65

Oxford History of Ancient egypt
Ian Shaw

''and, most telling of all, that nowhere except in the northern zone of interaction/intermarriage did Africa give rise to any significant civilization of any kind''

This is not true,and you seem to ignore other kingdoms,civlizations,and other cultures in other parts of Africa. When you say Northern you must be specific,because much of Northern Africa did not have a civlization either,except for Numidia,which was a Carthage clone. The Garmantes in Southern Libya was founded by Fezzani Tibbu. We also see complex civlizations in Eastern Africa,such as Aksum take foundation.

As I pointed out,the Sahara was once a lush,wet,and more pleasent place to live than it is today. If what you said were true then the civlization of Egypt would have developed in Lower Egypt around the Delta,which it did not. Dhar Tchitt in Southern Mauritania around 1500 B.C. had cities with stone walls and houses. We also see that kingdoms in Western Africa such as Djenne developed on their own without Northern interaction,and well before the Arabs came down from the Northern part.

Plus your assumption that intermarrige between costal North Africans and tropical Upper Egyptians is wrong. You are throwing out the dyastic race hypothesis,but adopting the hybrid hypothesis. The Ancient Egyptian culture clearly developed in Upper Egypt by tropical Africans,not Costal types,which were only present in the Delta.



Am J Phys Anthropol. 1996 Oct;101(2):237-46.
Concordance of cranial and dental morphological traits and evidence for endogamy in ancient Egypt.
Prowse TL, Lovell NC.
Department of Anthropology, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada.
A biological affinities study based on frequencies of cranial nonmetric traits in skeletal samples from three cemeteries at predynastic Naqada, Egypt, confirms the results of a recent nonmetric dental morphological analysis. Both cranial and dental traits analyses indicate that the individuals buried in a cemetery characterized archaeologically as high status are significantly different from individuals buried in two other, apparently nonelite cemeteries and that the nonelite samples are not significantly different from each other. A comparison with neighbouring Nile Valley skeletal samples suggests that the high status cemetery represents an endogamous ruling or elite segment of the local population at Naqada, which is more closely related to populations in northern Nubia than to neighbouring populations in southern Egypt.
Am J Phys Anthropol. 1992 Mar;87(3):245-54.
Further studies of crania from ancient northern Africa: an analysis of crania from first dynasty Egyptian tombs, using discriminant functions.
Keita SO.
Department of Anthropology, University of Maryland, College Park. An analysis of First Dynasty crania from Abydos was undertaken using multiple discriminant functions. The results demonstrate greater affinity with Upper Nile Valley patterns, but also suggest change from earlier craniometric trends. Gene flow and movement of northern officials to the important southern city may explain the findings.
Am J Phys Anthropol. 1990 Sep;83(1):35-48.
Studies of ancient crania from northern Africa.
Keita SO.
Department of Surgery, Howard University Hospital, Washington, DC 20060.
Historical sources and archaeological data predict significant population variability in mid-Holocene northern Africa. Multivariate analyses of crania demonstrate wide variation but also suggest an indigenous craniometric pattern common to both late dynastic northern Egypt and the coastal Maghreb region. Both tropical African and European metric phenotypes, as well intermediate patterns, are found in mid-Holocene Maghreb sites. Early southern predynastic Egyptian crania show tropical African affinities, displaying craniometric trends that differ notably from the coastal northern African pattern. The various craniofacial patterns discernible in northern Africa are attributable to the agents of microevolution and migration.
J Hum Evol. 2000 Sep;39(3):269-88.
The position of the Nazlet Khater specimen among prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations.
Pinhasi R, Semal P.
Department of Biological Anthropology, University of Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3DZ, U.K. The morphometric affinities of the 33,000 year old skeleton from Nazlet Khater, Upper Egypt are examined using multivariate statistical procedures. In the first part, principal components analysis is performed on a dataset of mandible dimensions of 220 fossils, sub-fossils and modern specimens, ranging in time from the Late Pleistocene to recent and restricted in space to the African continent and Southern Levant. In the second part, mean measurements for various prehistoric and modern African and Levantine populations are incorporated in the statistical analysis. Subsequently, differences between male and female means are examined for some of the modern and prehistoric populations. The results indicate a strong association between some of the sub-Saharan Middle Stone Age (MSA) specimens, and the Nazlet Khater mandible. Furthermore, the results suggest that variability between African populations during the Neolithic and Protohistoric periods was more pronounced than the range of variability observed among recent African and Levantine populations. Results also demonstrate a general reduction in the degree of sexual dimorphism during the Holocene. However, this pattern of reduction pattern varies by geographic location and is not uniform across the African continent.
Mapping diveristy: craniofacial affinities in the Mid-Holocene Nile Valley considered with archaeological and linguistic data.
(Soy Keita and A.J. Boyce April 2002)
The appearance of agriculture occurs in the Nile Valley some 2000 years after its appearance in Europe and the Near East. The major cultigens are the same in these areas. It has been hypothesized by some reasearchers that agriculture emerges in the Nile Valley cocomitant with the arrival of speakers of the Afro-Asiatic language family, both being brought after differentiation of the Nostratic macofamily speech community. In this view agriculture and(Afro-Asiatic)come from Europe, the locale of the Nostratic cradle in this model. A phenetic craniometric analysis of early farmers fromthe Nile Valley in Upper Egypt in order to explore this hypothesis. Badarian crania were studied with European and African series from the Howells' database, using generalized differences and cluster analysis(neighboring joining and UPGMA algorithms). Greater affinity is found with the African series. The results are considered with a variety of linguistic and archaeological evidence, as well as the findings of simulation studies relevant to this study. It concluded that the earliest Nile Valley farmers in Upper Egypt for which there is record were locals, not European immigrants and therefore the development of agriculture in this region was not due to demic diffusion ultimately from Europe. The problems with phenetic affinity studies considered in isolation from other evidence will be discussed, as well as the flaws of thinking in terms of absolute identity, and not relative similarity.

''The vibrancy and genius of the Egyptian civilization is attributable to DIVERSITY''

Sounds like this is your opinion. Egyptians,at times,were very xenophobic,and often bragged about killing Asiatics,Libyans,and even other Africans. Ancient Egypt only became diverse after unification of Upper and Lower Egypt,which was distinct from each other even in pre-dyanstic times.

'' The effort to hijack Egyptian history and make it serve the agenda of modern Black racists is revisionism at its worst. But I fear you and I are wasting our time with these folks. Todd Greaves ''

Same can be said for Nordocentrist idiots who think the Pharoahs were all blonde haired,and have afifnities with Norhern or Western Europeans. Egyptologist have been guilty in mainstream soceity of hijacking Egyptian;'s cultural heritage than anyone else in the world. I am glad to see that some modern day Egyptologist have corrected this,but much work needs to be done.

I am Egyptian,and after living in America I have come to consider myself as ''black''

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